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swallace
Jul 06, 2008, 6:14 PM
Nothing but crashes.

Is there a version coming that will keep Visual Studio alive? Even simple operations like dragging a datepicker onto a window kills things.

I appreciate your efforts, but the version you have posted now has no value, and is likely taking customers away.

Right, right, it's a beta, but seriously, crashing this often? Why is this publicly available?

geoffrey.mcgill
Jul 06, 2008, 10:01 PM
Hi swallace,

Are you using version 0.5.3 (http://www.ext.net/download/)? There was a problem with the DatePicker in earlier versions crashing VS.

After the release of 0.5.3 there was a different, but related, problem reported (http://forums.ext.net/showthread.php?threadid=794-5-1.aspx) where dragging a ViewPort onto the design surface would crash VS, although only if the ViewPort was included in the Source before the ScriptManager or if there was no ScriptManager on the Page. Actually, it was really the .Icon property on the <ext:Panel> control which triggered the bug. No .Icon, no crash.

If you're experiencing a crash, please ensure you are using v0.5.3 and include a ScriptManager as the first Coolite control.

The bugs were fixed and we have not been able to reproduce any crash with the latest SVN code. Everything will be publicly available with the next (v0.6) release.

Other than that I'm not aware of any other circumstances which crash VS.

The bug which caused the crash was just a very trivial Null Reference Exception in design-mode. Why/how a Null Reference Exception could cause a complete crash of VS is beyond me.

If you run into a crash, please post the exact steps to reproduce and your .aspx page.

ColdSun
Jul 07, 2008, 12:21 AM
The only bug I've had so far is the one Geoffrey explained above. Its quite easy to bypass it by adding the scriptmanager at the beginning.

I really don't agree with you at all about the release. What they have done so far is amazing. There is also the fact that you are getting to use it for free. You could always go back to coding extJS by hand if you don't like it...

swallace
Jul 07, 2008, 1:44 AM
I didn't say it wasn't an impressive idea. It is. And we are doing ExtJs by hand, and you know what? It works.

I'm just saying, at the multi-billion dollar oil and gas firm where I work, Coolite is a joke. Downloads by several developers this week crashed VS 2008 repeatedly and reproducibly. There's no chance whatsoever that the product will get considered again - for years.

Effectively you're removing people from consideration of your product, doing damage to your name for years to come by putting out code of this quality. One developer commented that Coolite "hides the updates behind the $600 SVN wall," asking "who would cut a PR for this alpha product?" I can't even imagine how many people are downloading this very early version, getting these errors, and trashing it immediately. They instantly become Coolite anti-fans.

The errors seem to be related to the use of MasterPages, and the placement of ScriptManager on them. It extends far beyond DatePicker, and includes some of the samples posted on these forums. Will I post examples? No. Why should I? We're never going to buy this product. I'll never be able to convince anyone.

I think Coolite is a great idea, and certainly I wish it were complete today. I'm a fan. But, even when it's done I won't get to use it because it's reputation is destroyed by the current release. Developers who aren't tracking each release, reading the forums and noticing the potential - not you, the reader, you're involved and interested - those other developers give it one download, one look, one crash, and no more - for years to come.

I've been downloading releases, watching the forums, hoping it grows. But I can't champion the product in my company any longer.

I'm sorry if people don't like to hear that, but I'm more sorry that I'll never get to properly introduce Coolite to my colleagues, even after it's a hardened shipping product. I don't want to get laughed at.

I urge you to slow down the releases and test, test, test. I'm glad you've got hobbiests helping you, but that's not where the money is. I'm sorry I can't help you.

swallace
Jul 07, 2008, 9:38 AM
Admin: Rights access here does not allow me to delete my own thread. Please remove this thread in it's entirety.

geoffrey.mcgill
Jul 07, 2008, 10:57 AM
Hi swallace,

Thanks for the feedback.

I put in an all nighter and hopefully fixed the Visual Studio design time crashing problem. The fix is included with version 0.5.4 and available for download (http://www.ext.net/download/) now. New builds of both the Community and Professional Editions were released.

After integrating the fix, I spent about 4+ hours trying to purposely crash Visual Studio. I created dozens of samples, the most complex of which had a three layer deep nested MasterPage sample with ViewPort, DateField's everywhere and at least one instance of every other control in the Toolkit. I tried with a ScriptManager and without. I tried with a ScriptManager at the top of Page and at the bottom. ScriptManager in MasterPage and in the Content Page.

Everything was tested in VS 2005 &amp; 2008 and VWD 2005 &amp; 2008.

If no ScriptManager was on the Page, the design-time rendering was not great (because no .css is applied/included), but there was also no crashing.

I'm really looking for some feedback from the Community regarding this latest build (v0.5.4). If you can make Visual Studio crash, please let us know. Any information on steps to reproduce would be very helpful. Maybe there's an obvious test/sample/scenario we missed, but if we can reproduce it, we'll fix it and release another build.

If testing the new build, please ensure you completely remove the previous build from your Project. You shouldn't have to uninstall the previous build, but do ensure the Project is actually using 0.5.4 and not some Visual Studio shadow cache copy.

I've taken Vladimir off the GridPanel development for a day or so to test and work on this problem as well. We're also building a new <ext:ScriptManagerProxy> control which will be used to provide design-time support when including Coolite controls into a UserControl (.ascx) or Content Page.

P.s. Hey ColdSun... thanks for feedback! We really appreciate you taking the time to report the original crash bug and making the effort to improve the product and community. Thank you.

jlertle
Jul 10, 2008, 10:08 PM
I have been testing the 0.5.4 release and can't get a crash.

I have to say that the work you guys are doing is great and very appreciated by many of us. I know that many of the features work fine for me and do not expect them all to work perfectly until well after the 1.0 release. Hell there are many features in products put out by the majors that have never worked right and probably never will...

Given the fact that this product is currently in development, personally, I never would have presented it to my company, that's just asking for it. I don't even recommend MS products until they've been on the street for a year (or 2, learned that one the hard way).

I think that people who are paying for the SVN/Professional Edition are truly good samaritans to be funding this awesome product. I wish I had some extra cash so I could be one of them.
Keep up the spectacular work guys!

ColdSun
Jul 10, 2008, 10:49 PM
Geoffrey - my pleasure. I'll be around quite a bit.

swallace - I'm not sure if the hobbiest thing was a jibe at me, but I've likely been doing this longer than you have and this is what I do for a living every day. I'm not just some hobbiest playing with web pages after work. I work for a major corporation which will remain nameless and that's all I have to say about this...

I agree with you that things need to be tested before release, but this isn't even in version 1.0. It is a fantastic idea for the developers to offer a version for the community to test. I've already found a crucial bug and they have put it behind them. This will result in us seeing a final version sooner than later. For the life of me I can't figure out why you would show this to your company when it isn't even 1.0 yet? I'm developing with extJS by hand for real projects - but this is a big time-saver, especially for some of the people I work with who aren't as technically capable as some of us.

geoffrey.mcgill
Jul 15, 2008, 10:28 AM
Just in case anyone is still following this thread... I've been running into another very obscure VS crashing problem. I have not been able to consistently reproduce and it appears to only happen if building from the original source. The compiled release .dll's do not appear to be affected.

I think the problem might have something to do with VS caching a copy of the .dll after a re-compile then, under some yet to be determined scenario, when any <ext:> control is dragged from the Toolbox into Source view a crash occurs. I have not experienced a crash when dragging/dropping from Toolbox into Design mode, only Source/Html view.

If using VS, and you have a Website project referencing the Coolite.Ext.Web Project, when you build the Project the .dll's are refreshed in the Website project. VS also caches copies of these .dll's.

As mentioned above, this crash has not been reproduced consistently and maybe my dev machine just needed to be restarted (which I did and no crash since). It's possible I was out of Memory and that combined with some unknown VS (or Coolite Toolkit) bug caused a crash.

I mention here because if anyone else runs into a similar problem, please let me know. I'll do my best to keep this thread updated.

cgishack
Jul 23, 2008, 1:44 PM
I hate to reopen this thread, but I downloaded a copy of Coolite today and am
experiencing the VS crashing problem.

I have added the script manager just below the form tag and made sure all
controls were below the script manager.



I believe I have narrowed down the problem though. I am using another 3rd party
control created by ESRI. It is a map control for rendering GIS data. When
I add this into a Coolite ViewPort Center panel, VS does crash.



Any ideas on what I can do?

I dont think there is anyway you can duplicate this because the ESRI control do cost some $$.


Drew

geoffrey.mcgill
Jul 23, 2008, 1:58 PM
Hi Drew,

Thanks for reporting the problem. I'll see what I can do to recreate the crash.

Does the crash occur if you add the control to an <ext:Panel>? Please try with adding the Panel as the only Coolite control on the Page (other than ScriptManager), then add the ESRI to the <Content> template. As well, please ensure the Icon property has not been set on the Panel.

cgishack
Jul 23, 2008, 2:47 PM
Geoffery, thanks for the quick reply.

I started with a clean page, added a script manager, ext coolite panel and my ESRI map control and it did crash.

I tried a work around by adding the map control programatically and its almost looking right, but I think i have some CSS work to get it positioned correctly.


Drew

geoffrey.mcgill
Jul 24, 2008, 7:06 AM
Hi Drew,

Could you contact me (geoff [at] coolite [dot] com) off list and we'll work through debugging the conflict? I tried to find a demo version to test with but nothing seems to available. Anyways, shoot me an email. Once we narrow down and/or fix the problem we can update this thread.

cgishack
Jul 28, 2008, 4:50 PM
<p class="MsoNormal">I have been able to determine what is causing Visual Studio
to crash on me.

Its something that is linked with IE's Script Debugger.

When I Disable the IE Script debugger through Tools -> Internet
Options -> Advanced -> (Browsing) Disable Script Debugging Coolite
works great with my other 3rd party controls when in VS design view.

Even Visual Studio 2008 just seems smoother when transitioning better markup
and design view.



Hopefully this can help someone or the developers.</p>

<p class="MsoNormal">Drew
</p>

geoffrey.mcgill
Jul 28, 2008, 5:25 PM
Hi Drew,

Very interesting find. I'll do some research and see if I can figure out why the two might be linked. Thanks for taking the time to post your findings.

cgishack
Jul 28, 2008, 5:35 PM
Update:
It worked for about 40 minutes.
Its crashing again :-)

Darn!

Drew

geoffrey.mcgill
Aug 01, 2008, 6:41 PM
I've been doing some testing and I have a theory (80% confident) about what might be causing the crash with some 3rd party controls. I think it's a file locking problem when two assemblies try to access the Web.config file at (or about) the same time. The web.config file is locked when another assembly tries to read and Visual Studio can not recover.

Now, we're doing some funky stuff (non API) to read/write values to the web.config (some during design-time) and other assemblies might be trying the same trick.

The fix is easy, although it means developers would have to manually copy/paste one line to the Web.config <httpHandlers> section if they want the "Clean Url" formatting and automatic Gzip compression featuers. Obviously not a big deal, but it is one step that I would rather avoid having to encourage developers to do. By handling this automatically I feel it saves a lot of inconveinice for developers, but... any crashing is obviously not acceptable.

Wether this is a Visual Studio bug or not, we have to deal with finding a solution.

We're providing an extremely "rich" design time experience and because we're pushing the limits we're also treading in some unknown territory. The crashing appears to only affect the DESIGN TIME rendering in Visual Studio and it only appears to be a problem when the assembly is used in conjunction with some 3rd party assemblies. We haven't experienced any crashing lately when using the Coolite Toolkit by itself or with any Microsoft controls (ajax or oldschool). There have been no other reports of crashing, other than Drew's above which I think is web.config related.

Thanks to anyone who's helped with constructive feedback. I'll keep this thread updated with our progess.

mercede75
Sep 16, 2011, 6:38 AM
Ive the following Configuration

Windows 7 Professional Edition
Visual Studio 2008 Professional Edition + SP1

SQL Server 2005 Express Edition + SP4

I'm using Ext.NET in a project. All seems fine until I switch to design view and suddenly VS2008 crashes and restarts. I have been able to produce the bug at my home machine, laptop, and 2 office workstations.
The project is like this
1. Master page with resource manager control
2 Content page with grid panel and store.

what is causing the crash?

Any solutions?

geoffrey.mcgill
Sep 16, 2011, 7:17 AM
Ive the following Configuration

Windows 7 Professional Edition
Visual Studio 2008 Professional Edition + SP1

SQL Server 2005 Express Edition + SP4

I'm using Ext.NET in a project. All seems fine until I switch to design view and suddenly VS2008 crashes and restarts. I have been able to produce the bug at my home machine, laptop, and 2 office workstations.
The project is like this
1. Master page with resource manager control
2 Content page with grid panel and store.

what is causing the crash?

Any solutions?

Please upgrade to the latest public release (v1.2 or higher).

http://www.ext.net/download/